 | Vitafórum A régi vitafórum Ebben a témában találhatók meg a régi (3.0 el?tti) fórum hozzászólásai. (Indította: Szitya, 2003.02.09. 12:21:21) | Raszi | 2000.10.17. 19:31:26 | Válasz erre | | | | | Lesz MIÉP is, jó magyar szokás szerint keresztbeszerveztek a Csörsz
utcai rendezvénynek: a MIÉP 17.00-kor tart m?sort a Kongresszusi
Központban, ahol a Bocskai Színpad el?adói lépnek fel, és beszédet
mond Csurka István. |
| Raszi, a Revizionista | 2000.10.16. 22:05:18 | Válasz erre | | | | | Október 23., 12.00-kor a Széna téren lesz megemlékezés, 14.00-kora
Corvin közben (a f?szervez? Gergely bácsi, és itt fellép a Beatrice
is), 18.00-kor pedig a XII. kerületi Csörsz utcában, a
MOM-kultúrházban )itt a tervek szerint több '56-os szervezet ünnepel
együtt.)
Október 19-én, csütörtökön Gödöll?n az egyetem aulájában a Bocskai
Színpad trianoni emlékm?sora adatik el? 19.00-t?l.
Október 20-án a Wigwamban a Beatrice muzsikál, október 22-én pedig
ugyanitt az Egészséges Fejb?r
ad koncertet, el?zenekar a Magna
Hungaria. |
| D@ni | 2000.10.15. 16:08:06 | Válasz erre | | | | | Az el?z? hozzászóló által említett emlékm? háború el?tti képe "véletlenül" rajta van a Magyar Múlt oldalon:
Íme a link az emlékm? képéhez: http://www.magyarmult.externet.hu/Trianon/nagyk.htm
Üdv: Ballabás Dániel - Magyar Múlt honlap
www.magyarmult.externet.hu(Előzmény: "Hiszek egy Istenben, Hiszek egy Ha, 2000.10.10. 14:20:41) |
| "Hiszek egy Istenben, Hiszek egy Ha | 2000.10.10. 14:20:41 | Válasz erre | | | | | Örömmel tudatom mindazokkal, akik szívükön viselik Nagymagyaroszág történelmét, hogy Nagykanizsán szeptember hónapban elkezdték a magyarok együvétartozását hirdet? Irredenta emlékm? kiemelését nyughelyér?l és restaurálását.
Az emlékm? rövid története:
1933-ban Schless István Nagykanizsai születés?, ausztriai, anfini lakos 24000 peng?t adományozott Nagykanizsa városának, hogy építsenek egy emlékm?vet, mely kifejezi Magyarország oszthatatlanságát. A monumentális alkotás 1934 szeptemberére készült el. 1954-ig dics?n hirdette az ?si dics?séget, a magyar vitézséget, a munkát s a szebb jöv?t Szent István koronájának fényében, amikor arra méltatlan kezek megrongálták és a sírjának ásott gödörbe döntötték!
Kérek mindenkit, aki igaz magyarnak vallja magát, hogy ha teheti, zarándokoljon el ide és tekintse meg restaurálás közben, továbbá vegyen rész az újraavatási ünnepségen, mely várhatóan 2001. (májusában?) lesz megrendezve (az id?pont még pontosan nem ismert).
"Mert nincs oly rejtett dolog, ami napfényre ne j?ne: és oly titok, ami ki ne tudódnék."
(MÁTÉ 10,26) |
| Raszi, a Revizionista | 2000.10.05. 19:55:03 | Válasz erre | | | | | MAGYAR AKTIVISTÁK! MOZGÓSÍTÁS AZ ÉSZAK-VAJDASÁG EGYESÍTÉSÉRE AZ ANYAORSZÁGGAL NATO VÉDELEM ALATT!
A jelenlegi rác válság (hányadik is TRIANON óta?), alkalmat nyújt Észak-Vajdaság békés egyesítésére az anyaországgal. Nekunk szerb demokrácia csak a határok igazságos újrarajzolása után érdekünk. Addig egyetlen érdekünk van: Vajdaság egyesítése Magyarországgal! A magyarságnak nincs jöv?je Szerbiával! Vajdaságnak nincs jöv?je Szerbiával!
Vajdaság népe is békés egyesítést akar NATO védelem alatt. Alább az egyik közvéleménykutatás erdeménye az egyesítésr?l és autonómiáról.
Balla Lajos-Laci (Jugo koztarsasagi kepviselo) irta:
Errol a közvéleménykutatásról még néhány szót meg kell említenem. Azoknak, akik nem tudják, esetleg nem akarják tudni az eredményeket, itt melléklem az 1999. szeptember 23-án leolvasott állást.
Demokrata lehet?ség
összesen szavazott: 161
autonómiára: 33% (53 személy)
visszacsatolásra: 63% (101 személy)
Mocsokrata lehet?ség
összesen szavazott: 135
autonómiára: 16% (22 személy)
visszacsatolásra: 79% (107 személy)
ITT AZ ID?, MOST VAGY SOHA !!!!!
ADDIG KELL CSELEKEDNÜNK, AMÍG A RÁCOK A SAJÁT BAJUKKAL VANNAK ELFOGLALVA!
?K SEM AKARNAK MINKET, MI SEM AKARJUK ?KET, VÁLJUNK EL BÉKÉSEN !
VISSZA A MAGYAR ÉSZAK-VAJDASÁGOT !!!
<img src="http://www.egroups.com/files/hungary-2000/jugoparl.jpg"> |
| William Steadman, New York | 2000.10.03. 12:37:00 | Válasz erre | | | | | Vezer - Sepsiszentgyorgy:
Szekely Magyar Vezer , SOHA ne szunj meg hinni a GYOZELMETEKBEN !!!!!!!!!!!
Eljen A Kormanyzo !!!!!!!!!!(Előzmény: Vezer - Sepsiszentgyorgy, 2000.09.30. 01:47:52) |
| Szarka Arpad Balint , Nagyvarad | 2000.10.03. 12:32:57 | Válasz erre | | | | | Éles Bulcsú:
Eljen A Magyar Nemzet Es Az Ezereves Magyarorszag(Előzmény: Éles Bulcsú, 2000.09.30. 01:47:08) |
| Attila | 2000.10.03. 00:39:40 | Válasz erre | | | | | György Attila:
Kedves Drusza, A jelképek nagyon fontosak de azért vigyázzunk hogy ne váljanak fontosabbá mint a dolgok, eszmék amiket jelképeznek.
Te mint lelkész tisztan kell hogy lásd annak veszélyét hogy milyen konnyen kicserelik a muveletlen emberek 'faragott kepeket' Istennel.
Roviden: Ne a zászlora legyunk buszkék, hanem arra hogy Magyarok vagyunk... Jelképnek megteszi egy kis 'nemzeti színu' szalag vagy kokárda is...(Előzmény: György Attila, 2000.10.02. 23:33:07) |
| György Attila | 2000.10.02. 23:33:07 | Válasz erre | | | | | mindenkinek:
Tegyünk meg mindent, hogy a koronás magyar címer visszakerüljön a magyar zászlóra.
György Attila ref.lelkész Gárdony(Előzmény: Attila - Franciaorszag, 2000.09.30. 02:00:39) |
| Attila - Franciaorszag | 2000.09.30. 02:00:39 | Válasz erre | | | | | Jocó, Erdekes a Lovász ur levele... de nem gondolom hogy ennek a 'vilagot jart' kontener rakodo munkasnak a velemenyt igazan komolyan kellene venni. A problemak felismerese nem kivan tul nagy muveltseget, de a megoldasok neha nagyon bonyolultak... A kulfoldi 'menekultek' vilagszerte okoznak bérfeszultsegt, peldaul a mexikoiak az USA-ban, az arabok Franciaorszagban, a negerek Nagy-Britanniaban... Altalaban a bevezetett kotelezo 'minimum ber' megfelelo vedelmet nyujt a 'hazai' munkasoknak, es megakadalyozza a vendegek kizsakmanyolasat... Persze mindig akad nehany csirkefogo munkaado aki az iparat az illegalis bevandorlokra epiti es ehberert dolgoztatja oket... Tulajdonkeppen azt akarom mondani hogy (sajnos) reszben Lovasz urnak igaza van... A bevandorlok inenis okoznak berproblemat. De a megoldas az nem a 'mostohatestverek' kiutasitasa lenne hanem az 'egyenlo munkaert egyenlo bert' rendszer eroteljes alkalmazasa lenne es a lakossag altal valo altalanos tamogatasa... Namarmost ha Magyarorszagon ma elfogadott erkolcs megengedi a gyors es mindenaron valo meggazdagodast, akkor nem kell csodalkozni hogy az emberek ott hasznaljak ki egymast ahol tudjak - tulajdonkeppen nemzeti(segi) hovatarozas figyelembevetele nelkul. Az aki a 'mostohatestvert' ehberert dolgoztatja az az anyjat is eladna 20 forintert... A Trianoni kataszrofarol pedig a kovetkezo a velemenyem: Mar az elso vilaghaboru kirobbanasa elott a vezeto hatalmak es es az oket a hatterbol iranyito csoportok kenyelmetlenul vettek tudomasul hogy mas nemzetek, csoportok is erosodnek es probalnak megallni a labukon... A haboru kitorese es az azt koveto 'bekeszerzodesek' ezt a folyamatot akarta megallitani... Ezt a jo oreg 'osszd meg es uralkodj' modszerrel kivantak elerni... teljes sikerrel. Mig a kis megosztott, megnyomoritott orszagok egymas torkanak atharapasaval voltak elfogla addig a nagyhatalmak komoly ellenallas nelkul birtokbavettek az egesz vilagot. Most mar sotet szervezetek mint a Viagbank vagy a Nemzetkozi Valuta Alap - ha akarod ide lehet sorolni Soros Gyorgy szamtalan sóhivatalát - orszagokat, politikai partokat, nezeti-nemzetkozi hirugynoksegeket úgy adnak-vesznek mint krumplit a piacon. Ugy gondolom hogy Erdély hovatartozasa teljesen lenyegtelenne lesz ha a magyar, az erdelyi es a roman nagyhatalmak 'egynjogu' rabszolgajava valik. Erdelyt nem a romanoktol kell visszaszerezni, hanem feltarni es megszuntentni azokat az okokat es eroket amelyek a kisseb orszagokat acsarkodasokba, szegenysegbe es kiszolgaltatottsaga taszitjak... A 80 eves problemat mindenkeppen meg kell oldani. De a megoldast nem lehet azoktol elvarni akik tulajdonkeppen okoztak. Ha a keleteuropi orszagok nem lesznek kepesek felretenni egymaskozotti nezeteltereseiket es egyutt szembszallni a globalis McDonaldositással, akkor nehany even belul belolunk fogjak csinalni a fasirtot. Probald figyelemmel kiserni a Prágában ezekben a nopokban folyo dolgokat - Sokan probalnak szembeszallni a penzehes nemzetkozi nagyvallalatokkal akik haborukat, ehinsegeket, szegenyseget es ehinseget okoznak vilagszerte csakhogy a profitjukat emeljek...(Előzmény: Jocó - Nagyvárad, 2000.09.30. 01:59:28) |
| Jocó - Nagyvárad | 2000.09.30. 01:59:28 | Válasz erre | | | | | | Kedves magyar, magyarországi és nem magyarországi testvéreim. Ti akik olvassátok ezt a honlapot, döbbenjetek meg! Vagy nem is olyan meglepo az írás, amit figyelmetekbe ajánlok? Ha van idotök, érdemes elolvasni az Erdélyi Napló egy írását. Megtalálható a következo címen. Trianon Társaság honlapja, Kapcsolatok rovat, További érdekes honlapok, Magyar Ifjak Világfóruma, Erdélyi Napló. 38.szám, dunatáj, Tisztelt Uram, Lovas Tamás írása. Sajnos ez a vélemény nem egyedi eset. Trianon nem csak a szívekbe ütöt sebet, hanem az agyakba is. Lovas Tamás agya súlyosan károsodott. O eleven példája annak, hogy milyen a baloldali, liberális szellemmel elrontott magyar ember. Nem csoda, ha mi itt a határon innen nem lelkesedünk az MSZMP és az SZDSZ nevek hallatán. Mi a véleményetek Lovas, pontosabban LÓ ÚR írásáról? Ha így gondolkodik a magyar, mint a ló, mi mire számíthatunk? |
| Attila - Franciaorszag | 2000.09.30. 01:55:53 | Válasz erre | | | | | Dear Arthur,
You really break my heart with the geograpy lecture. Of couse Hungary IS the center, the middle, the pivot and many more important sounding things of Europe. But somehow after two great wars the even greater powers fully disregarded Hungary's important position and when they divided Europe simply to East and West, and did not create a unit for Hungary - that is how it happend... Since then, many Hungarians going to great length to prove that we are NOT one of the Slavic tribes who are mostly living on the East, and here are very useful the colorful geographic terms, used imaginatively. As in the very sad practice living on the East means that the people's destiny decided on the West - regardless if one may call the location north-Balkan, east of the middle, central, eastish, almost-West and so on.
As you say: ...After World War I, France, the dominating power in Europe and the protector of the Little Entente, pursued a shortsighted, vindictive and narrow-minded policy, apparently confused by fear... I tend to disagree... It was a well dsciplined, deeply thought over and a brilliant plan to prevent East-Europe from developng into a decent region what may be competition for the West. As for an Englishman, your traditional distaste for the French is undersandable, but France rather had only big mouth in the past century, the 'real decisions' made by Britain and the USA. It did work extremly well for 80 years and as we see the West's attitude in the Balkans an other century will pass without significant changes. People seems to forget that the two worldwar was fought between powers for the (re?) distribution of the world among themself. The newcommer Germany (after thousand years of fruitless efforts) was given a blody nose at first, but when it proved it can be as bloodthirsty as the 'big-ones' eventually accepted in the club. You may think I am too cynical, but I belive that the problems created in the petite Trianon palace, can not be solved until the same powers dictate the rules today who designed the treaty 80 years ago.
Regards Attila.(Előzmény: Arthur Lloyd-Smith - Oxford, 2000.09.30. 01:52:20) |
| Raszi, a Revizionista | 2000.09.30. 01:54:41 | Válasz erre | | | | | Te Matyi ott vínben!
Az a helyzet,hogy hozzá sem tudsz "ugatni" a témához : Hallottál már olyan fogalmakról, mint etnikai revízió, meg népszavazás, önrendelkezési jog ? Mert kétlem... És mellesleg nem NEKÜNK kellenek azok a "lerobbant területek", hanem az ott él? testvéreinknek akarjuk megadni a lehet?séget, hogy visszatérhessenek hozzánk.
Te persze egy tollvonással megoldanád, hogy 3.5 millió magyar kényszerüljön örök börtönbe, schengeni barikádok mögé.Köszönöm a nevükben! Ja csak hogy tudd, Dél-Felvidék közel egy szinten áll Mo-gal, Bácska pedig egész Jugót látja el élelemmel.(Az pedig már más kérdés, hogy ebb?l vissza semmit nem engednek nekik...) Na ennyi. Ha már magyar érzelem nem lakozik benned, legalább a racionális érveket gondold meg. Most mondhatnám, hogy hazátlan vagy, de nem mondom, mert megsért?dnél...(Előzmény: E. Zear Mathios - Wien, Ausztria, 2000.09.30. 01:53:23) |
| E. Zear Mathios - Wien, Ausztria | 2000.09.30. 01:53:23 | Válasz erre | | | | | | Kiscicáim, ez egy akkora faszság, hogy a frissen meszelt falat nyalom tôle. Nem veszitek észre, hogy manapság inkább megpróbáljuk a határokat eltüntetni? Ha nektek azok a lerobbant, balkáni, kb. 20%-ig magyarok lakta területek kellenek, akkor számolhattok azzal is, hogy a schengeni határ még 1000 évig ott fog húzódni, ahol ma. Nem keletebbre, egy centivel sem. Meggy?z?désem, hogy magyarnak lenni bárhol lehet: nem arra a csapatszellemre van szüksége az embereknek, ahol a sok kis szürkeség egy naggyá áll össze. Egyéniségek, individuumok léteznek. Ezért hagyja el Magyarországot annyi tudós és m?vész. Ciao. |
| Arthur Lloyd-Smith - Oxford | 2000.09.30. 01:52:20 | Válasz erre | | | | | Dear Attila,
Concerning the principle of revision, I think the opinion expressed by the English historian, Professor C. K. Webster, is irrefutable: "No territorial settlement in Europe has ever been permanent for very long. Clearly, then, if war is to be averted, something must be devised to do in the future what war has done in the past." It is apparent that the making of wise and durable peace treaties is absolutely necessary if this is to be accomplished. The revisionism I found in Hungary was a curious myth rather than a clear program. National disasters are just as conducive to psychological derangements as national triumphs. The main symptom, in both cases, is the growth of legends. In Hungary, people spoke with religious fervor of the restoration of the thousand-year-old realm, quite oblivious of the fact that in King Stephen's time, Hungary did not have the frontier which she lost in 1919. As I became better acquainted, I found that the camp of revisionism was somewhat divided against itself. Some people wanted restitution of the borders of 1914, others claimed all regions inhabited by Magyars, even if it meant the reincorporation of other elements. Others, very modestly, wanted but the inclusion of all Magyar regions directly adjacent to the new frontiers. Almost all the revisionists had two things in common: a desire for a common frontier with Poland and the return of Transylvania to Hungary. A common frontier with Poland meant the taking over of Ruthenia. Eastern Hungary around the Tisza River area suffered greatly from droughts because all the water conservation projects, etc., were in Ruthenia and Transylvania. When these provinces were taken away, the whole flood protection system was destroyed and great hardship was caused in the eastern part of Hungary. As a result... well, just think of the great floods in this very year.
Not to mention the cyanid pollution of river Tisza by Rumania. Hungary also wanted a common frontier with Poland because the Poles and Magyars had much in common and she longed for friendly neighbors. Hungary felt herself completely encircled by enemy countries, with the exception of Austria, which was weak politically and economically. Further, the Polish-Hungarian frontier had always been like the Canadian-American border: there had never been a war between Poland and Hungary, and each had confidence in the good intentions of the other. After World War I, France, the dominating power in Europe and the protector of the Little Entente, pursued a shortsighted, vindictive and narrow-minded policy, apparently confused by fear (typical French manner). In the Danubian Basin, her policy was purely militaristic, dominated by the idea that Hungary and Austria, being non-Slavic and therefore perhaps amenable to German allurements, should be kept down by the Little Entente. To be sure, some Frenchmen, for instance Prime Minister André Tardieu, advocated Danubian collaboration and solidarity, but these blessings could never materialize without a foundation of equality. Neither England nor France seemed to realize that to fill the vacuum created by the dissection of old Austria-Hungary and to set up a counterpoise to both Germany and Russia, it was imperative that the little countries, formerly part of Austria-Hungary, should co-operate closely and form a united front. France seemed to have an unchangeable policy which took nothing into consideration that happened after the Treaty of Trianon. England did not seem to care one way or the other what happened. Neither apparently foresaw the danger to central and southeastern Europe of a defenseless Austria and Hungary, and Hitler later must have wondered at their stupidity. The empire had kept any one of these races from chaining the others. All of this may sound like past history, outrun by events of incomparable magnitude. In reality it is living history. The same habitual hatreds and fondnesses are still alive and have already begun to shackle us and to make us blind to our own interests. I am speaking of the eastern half of Europe which includes one half of central Europe. Events to come may compel us to accept such an about-face in self-interest. But the less emotionally we act, the better we shall fare. Many people think that it is useless to protest if one is face to face with accomplished facts that cannot be changed without another world war. My reply is that facts are really accomplished only when recognized as permanent, and that to consider another world war as the only remedy is to put into practice a defeatism which is not yet warranted. Oh. One more thing. Where I and You live, England and France, is Western Europe. Where Hungary lies that's is CENTRAL EUROPE, not Eastern. As a Hungarian You should really know this fact shouldn't You?
-ALS(Előzmény: Attila - Franciaorszag, 2000.09.30. 01:49:41) |
| Raszi, a Revizionista | 2000.09.30. 01:51:04 | Válasz erre | | | | | TO ARTHUR:
A Contemporary Analysis of Trianon's Aftermath: Gyula Illyés' Spirit and Violence
"Trianon to us bears the meaning of a human slaughterhouse: it is there that every third Hungarian was crushed into subsistence under foreign rule; it is there that the territories of our native language were torn to pieces." The writer who uttered these words on the eve of the sixtieth anniversary of the concluding of the Trianon peace treaty has been called the Grand Old Man of Hungarian letters. He is also referred to sometimes as perhaps the last of the national poets-"national" in the sense that he has taken it upon himself to voice his people's, his nation's, vital concerns. The role of advocate, prophet, crusader, intellectual leader-while it usually took considerable courage to assume-became an honorable burden in a country which often faced domestic and foreign tyranny, enslavement, even virtual extinction during its thousand-year history. Hungarians are in a tragic situation: there are fifteen million Hungarians in the world, but only ten million live within the present borders of their country. The rest live beyond these borders, and many of them are deprived of the opportunity to maintain their language, and are being discriminated against in other ways as well. If we are not concerned with them, we commit not national treason, but ethical treason - treason against our brothers and sisters, against people. The largest national minority of Europe is Hungarian. According to factual, verifiable data this minority does not have universities or other higher educational institutions, and soon will not have high schools either where the language of instruction would be Hungarian. Their few remaining high schools are being turned into vocational-technical schools, where the language of instruction is the "official language", which is other than Hungarian. The result is that a minority youth can't learn a trade in his own language; therefore, he can't become a skilled worker or a machine operator. He can only aspire to unskilled day-laborers' jobs. In the Hungarian minorities' elementary schools the children have to learn lies in their own language about their ancestors who, their textbooks tell them, were barbarian invaders, inferior savages. Twenty percent of the Hungarian children do not learn the alphabet in their own language. This is partly because some parents do not want to send their children to Hungarian schools - who would not want to save his children from an almost apartheid way of life? If, after having received their diplomas, young Hungarian professionals still insist on using their mother tongue, they are often assigned to jobs far away from any Hungarian community. Many of the professionals who are assigned to work in Hungarian towns, on the other hand, are people who do not speak or understand the local population's language. Hungarian intellectuals are disappearing from entire regions. Every function of Hungarian culture, art, and education is discontinued in an increasing number of traditionally Hungarian towns and cities.
"We have certainly gone a little too far" (from the secret letter of General Condecourt).
June 4, 1920: This is one of the most decisive dates in the history of the Hungarian nation, on this day the "chopping off" of historical Hungary has become final, including the separation of huge and sometimes only exclusively Hungarian territories. With the promise of the revision of this pact (and with partial fulfillement thereof) was Hitler's Germany able to entice our country to the wrong side, giving the Soviet Union reason to invade: if we reflect on this we can see that our country has been as a result compelled to join the line of those tormented by the Communist dictatorship. With this pact, however they satisfied the expansion plans of the neighbouring countries as well as the economical interest of Western Europe. The only thing of no interest was the suffering of our countrymen from discrimination and hatred outside of the original borders while those within were burdened with the difficulties of trying to stay "afloat". To make maters worse this all happened to such a nation, this theatening of the sheer existence of a culture, that has so many times saved Western Europe and has served for the longest time as the protecting shield of the Christian world. Let's just think of the Hungary of the XIIIth century how they stuck to the throat of the rapidly expanding Tatar empire how most of the Hungarian nation had to perish before they could make the Asian barbars turn back. Or what would have happened if our country together with other nations of the Balkans did not organise the protection against the Turks and did not hinder them whenever they turned west? And what help did we get from the West for all this? Perhaps the bells tolling at noon! (To correct a common misconception the bells toll not for the victory of Nándorfehérvár in 1456 but it was reminding our neighbours equally threatened by the Turks yet unwilling to fight them - to pray). To top it all France has convinced "the wild nation of Osman" to invade our territory even more vehemently, with one of the most significant Italian state Venice assisting to deliver them through the Bosporus. When all this could have been corrected with whatever small support in our freedom fight of 1848-49 the West has not budged excusing themselves with keeping the economical and political balance of Europe. This balance was not at all important when with the Pact of Trianon they have plunged our country in the deep, and moreover after World War II we have been left as free prey for the Soviet union. Our plight continues to be unimportant even as our region endeavours to reach up to the West, while the Westen countries only look for excuses in order to maintain their economical superiority, when the main reasons for our staying behind has originally been the result of their cruelty culminating in that so called "peace treaty". With that they bankcrupted the lives of several millions just to prove that they, the victors have been stronger. Stronger than 10 millions Hungarians. Naturally nowadays we are neither able nor willing to change this, and we are aware that it would make no sence. Our aim is however to make more people acquinted with this historical fact, for we are convinced that it has not been emphasized enough. We as one of the few thinkers, making use of modern technology are here trying to awaken more and more of us and to show what really happened, how great an injustice was committed against a nation already downtrodden. For those wanting to go deeper we suggest The Secrets of Trianon by Ern? Raffay (Tornado Dannenija 1990) as well as The Hungary of Trianon 1918-1945 by Jen? Gergely and Pál Pritz (Vince 1998). From these two books we have also taken much information while producing this website. Besides we have made use of the following materials: Ferenc Glatz: Magyarok a Kárpát-medencében (Pallas Kiadó, 1989); Tibor Hetés: A magyarországi forradalmak krónikája 1918-1919 (Kossuth Kiadó, 1969); György Máté: "Vörös jelek a hadak útján" (Táncsics Kiadó, 1969); Tibor Hajdu: Március huszonegyedike (Kossuth Kiadó, 1979); N?k Lapja magazin "A mi XX. századunk" cikksorozatának "A második Mohács" cím? része (2000/15. szám).
Summary of events
The First World War has caused much hardship to the victimised Hungary and people lost trust in the political power of the time. Immediately after Prime Minister István Tisza's announcement of our having lost the war a number of politicans have moved to the opposition, into the camp of Mihály Károlyi who was against the war. This camp has taken over the power on October 30-31 1918 when after the victory of a civil demokratic revolution called "Mumms" the independent Hungarian Republic was pronounced and Károlyi's party has started directing. However noble their aims were they could not realise them at the given time and soon the socialdemocrates have taken the lead. With the arrivall of the decision of the Paris peace conference (Vix notes) demanding the withdrawal of Hungarian soldiers from large territories of our own, the governement abdicated. The new cabinet of exclusively socialdemocrates has not wasted time in coming to agreement with the formerly imprisoned communist to realise a proletarian dictatorship and so the Soviet Republic of Hungary was formed. The leadership of Béla Kun has as its first step refused the Vix-notes. This has meant an immediate new war against Romania and Tcheslovakia demanding significant territories. As a result of battles of alternating successes (being threatened by Antant) and foreign policy arguments - the roman army ignoring a previous agreement has occupied Budapest, vandalising the country. After the roman invasion of more than six months a National Army was formed in the background under the leadership of Miklós Horty. The Antant powers have from then on decided to play games with our country of 21 millions. Thus on June 4. 1920 the signed peace treaty of Trianon came to being (named after a palace near Paris). This pact has cut off two-thirds of Hungary without taking into consideration any ethnical distribution, in essence wanting to eradicate Hungarian economical resources and assuring bigger powers for Westen Europe. This historical sketch is only aiming at assisting easier understanding of the events and their connections. If you are interested in the total picture we suggest to read the rest of this website.
The Peace Pact of Trianon
"I am completly unprotected and incapable against the work of the enemy" (from Apponyi Albert, leader of the Hungarian peace delegation).
The peace pact was signed on June 4, 1920 in the palace of Trianon belonging to the castles of Versailles (the exact location being the hallway between Little and Big Trianon). The territory of the country has been compressed from 282000 km2 to 93000 km2 meaning that exactly 2/3 of it was lost. The population of 18 millions went to 7.6 millions. (Compare this to "only" 13% of territory in Germany and 10% of population, to 8% territory of Bulgaria with the loss of corresponding population, or in Turkey where only parts with no Turkish population were lost.) With this partition in Romania more than 1.6 millions Hungarians, cca. 1 million in Tzechslovakia and close to half million in Yugoslavia were cut off. (Must mention that Hungary while winning in the war, never wanted to invade. Our country was ready to occupy only a minimal part of Romania or Serbia. This is proven by peace treaty plans of the time demonstrating justifiable demands.) These facts clearly show that the Antant's efforts to create nation states were only excuses to anihilate Hungary economicaly and to comply with expansion demands of Tzechslovakia and Yugoslavia, for all of these countries now became multinational. It is a mistake to think that during the conference the Hungarians were listened to as it is due to intelligent partners. The delegation lead by Apponyi, Bethlen and Teleki wanted to propose a referendum to decide the fate of the territories in question, in view of the theory of selfdetermination suggested by American President Wilson. It would be sheer illusion to suppose that anything guaranteed in the US could work have in the Carpathian Basin, but it was felt that something should be done in the interest of the completely victimised Hungarian. To the actual dispute of the peace conference Hungary was not even invited, the participiants especially the "great 4": the French Georges Clemenceau, the British David Lloyd George, the Italian Vittorio Orlando and the American Thomas Wilson together with the delegates of Romania, Tzehslovakia, Poland and Serbo-Chroat-Sloven Monarchy (later Yugoslavia) as well as Greece had brought down their decision without us. This document seriously affecting our history of the XX. century was finally ratified by the Minister of National Wellfare Ágost Benárd and Ambassador Alfréd Drasche Lázár. Report of the Hungarian News Agency: "In the churches of Budapest all the bells tolled, factories sounded their sirenes this morning, announcing the painful ____ of a nation in an autumn-like saol weather, it was today at 4:30 in the afternoon that the peace pact was signed in Trianon by the authorities. Today therefore we have lost our brilliant Hungarian cities, treaswed Kolozsvár, Kassa of the Rákóczies, coronating Pozsony, the dilligent Temesvár, Arad the city of martyrs and all the others our dearest grown-up children, beautiful Hungarian centres. On this day many millions of faithful Hungarians of our own blood have become homeless. The rulers of the world today feel satisfied to have finished a job, their victim lying in blood, mutilated ready to be covered by a shroud. Yet our fate is not completed. We are groaning under the weight of the strikes and our soul is crying from the pain. But like God's judgement sending storms to clear the air, we are beeing cleansed by the suffering and sthrengthened by ____. In this horrible hour of tragedy we conceive the great determination to stay alive against all odds and to regain some day with honest dilligence, stubhorn offerts and saint everything that was ____ taken away ____. The single "positive" point of the peace pact has been the legal restoration of our independence lacking for centuries. However, the Antant carefully watched not to allow too much freedom putting the country on a tight reign. The army was also under control, the staff having been limited to 35 thousand, making it impossible to halt any outside attack (compared to the Romanian Army of 280 thousand, to a Yugoslave force of 185 thousand and to the Tzechslovak troops numbering 162 thousand.) The armed section of the Danube Fleet was called back and no airforce was possible. One of the worst consequences of the pact was that it broke off the close knit economical unity of the Monarchy, not providing any chances of cooperation. This caused the main shortfall of the economy in the region. (That of course was beneficial to the great powers naturally.) The contract compelled each new state to insure equal rights for all minorities in every aspect of their culture and language but without guaranties so these have never materialized. In most places the Hungarian ethnics (even majorities) live in deprived conditions among continuous atrocities where the state does nothing to help them (or if they do, it is even more like genocide). In the pact Hungary had to commit herself never to give up here independence as state. This was not to guard against power efforts of the region. It was more due to the fact that with the "dismenberment" the value of independence has been lost to the extent that the publice was ready to opt for a new monarchy-like union. Both these people as well as those who valued independence more were later great supporters of all foreign policy efforts aiming for territorial revisions. The Hungarian peace delegation returned to Budapest on January 1921. Count Apponyi Albert (having held a two hours speech in French, English and Italian before the signing of the contract underlining the fact that the historical unity of our country can only be demolished against justice and prudence) has talked to reporters as follows: "I still insist that the new states raised from the ruins of Hungary will be stillborn, as they are not based on any leading principles. I doubt the reason to experiment with such unfit formations bringing about huge cultural shortfalls. Perhaps these arguments will effect our adverseries. However I have no positive proof of that. Should we confere with our enemies directly in similar conditions the above would be easier. As it happened I had the chance to explain my stand in 90 minutes and right away in the next half our exclusively and only the enemy's standpoint prevailed, so it would be foolish to think that my arguments could be effective against the enemy, whose counter activity restarting made me completely unprotected and incapable". The folloving is from a secret letter of General Condecourt: "At the peace conference we went the wrong way. We had to be blind to think that we can enforce such dismemberment on Hungary without throwing them into despair. Besides Romania and Serbia did not merit the fulfillment of such overambitions. It will surely be difficult for a country to surive without coal and mines, forests or industries. We have certainly gone a little too far."
Certainly. Attila Rostás and Semperger Zsolt students of Bethlen Gábor Reformed Secondary School of Hódmez?vásárhely(Előzmény: Arthur Lloyd-Smith - Oxford, 2000.09.30. 01:48:52) |
| Attila - Franciaorszag | 2000.09.30. 01:49:41 | Válasz erre | | | | | Dear Mr Lloyd-Smith,
I am Hungarian, I spent 11 years in Britain, and now I live in France since the beginning of this year, and I am in interested in history and day to day politics. I spent long months discussing the 'Trianon issue' on this site, but sadly I could not find any constructive forces here... I find that this site despite built and run in a professional manner, mostly visited by amateur dreamers... Sometimes I feel that western secret agents posting idiotic messages (even touching rasism) here just to proove that the Hungarians are not yet ready for decent discussions (sarcasm?) There is a mental trap hidden in the Trianon subject. Most of the historians, politicians and the interested public intend to agree on the fact that Versailles treaty was a great mistake in its final form and a cause of decades of sufferings and of course the Second World War. Who else if not the Hungarians are the most aware of this, who lost around 70% of their territory and about half of the population. The setup was so cruel, that even counties who 'gained' land and people, suffered at least as much as Hungary after the treaty, planting the seeds of national-ethnic hatred with lasting effects could measured in centuries... (Divide et impera - jumps in mind.) The first step towards the rocky road of the settlement of this issue is to get the West accept its responsibility causing this situation and act accordingly. - Of course - in the age of Western suppots for drugdealers and terrorists and 'humanitarian bombings' with depleted uranium and clusterbombs and killing half a million children for oil-interests - this is a dream. But I think that the acceptance of the whole of East-Europe in the European Union with full membership and with regards of the local customs, culture and so on... would ease on the situation a bit... The Problem is that many Hungarians insist on re-constitute the pre-Versailles borders, and they disregard the negative effects of it. So they disqualify themself from dicuss the issue on the international level, especially when the neighbours are invited as well... The Hungarians are so keen to get into the EU, and most of them not aware of the price of that. When already most of the newspapers in foreign hands, not to mention our industry, what can we expect ? Being the live-in servant for the West ? As long the West only have bombs to solve border/land-problems just like in Kosovo, and they only discuss from the position of power, we can not expect too much good from them. In Europe ( maybe in the world ), the most important issue not redrawing borders and recolouring new maps. As long people like George Soros buying and selling complete political paries and medias, when we are force-fed with hormon-treated beef, when our communications listened by the Echelon, when the news coverage of international events decided in NATO headquarters, when international events triggeres to suit for the American elections, we have plenti of problems to solve before buying our new coloured pencils to redesign East Europe.
Regards Attila(Előzmény: Arthur Lloyd-Smith - Oxford, 2000.09.30. 01:48:52) |
| Arthur Lloyd-Smith - Oxford | 2000.09.30. 01:48:52 | Válasz erre | | | | | Dear readers, I read these pages with great interest (I understand Hungarian but cannot speak or write). Well, first I wanted to write down a lot of thing, comment and such sort of thing but then changed my mind. Instead, I want to ask a question which - I believe so - is most important: what do you think is the solution of all the problem of Hungary which derive from Trianon? I'd like to hear a REAL constructive idea.
P.S. You can write in Hungarian, I'll understand that. |
| Vezer - Sepsiszentgyorgy | 2000.09.30. 01:47:52 | Válasz erre | | | | | 21-22-23
Reszketnek mar az olahok a hataron
Latjak hogy a szarmazasuk az nem tiszta,
Nem izlik mar az olahnak a puliszka!
Es ha egyszer marsot fujnak minalunk,
Erdelyben mi olyan rendet csinalunk
Hogy az olah meg az osszes pereputtya
Bocskorostol, puliszkastol huz a f...ba!!
ui. Horthy az olaht hordd ki! |
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